In his book “1933 Syndrome,” which is now being circulated, the Italian author links the social and political climate of the beginnings of Nazism with the present. “I have never suggested that events will be repeated,” he explains in an interview with Infobae. But he also explains why he is afraid.
The book describes a government. It says that its members were “merciless towards human beings, compassionate towards animals.” That as soon as they came to power they enacted a “Law against cruelty to animals.” That their leader “He had numerous dogs for whom I felt enormous affection”. That, although they were authoritarian and violent, at first they were seen as “the symbol of change, of renewal, of revolution”. That “they had voted for him because in any case 'things could not go worse'”. The book also says that, after some debates, parliament gave him the full powers that the government had asked for. And that they believed that it would be “a passing phenomenon”.
That government, of course, was that of Adolf Hitler. The book is called 1933 Syndrome and he brings together, threading together, different moments, details, attitudes and ideas that arose around Nazism and that evoke moments, details, attitudes and ideas of the present. It was published in 2018 but achieved circulation and popularity now, perhaps because the similarities he points out became more evident.
“Analogies,” says its author, the Italian journalist Siegmund Ginzberg. He warns: “With this book I have never intended to suggest that events will be repeated.” This - there are similarities, but the future is not written - will be said in this exclusive interview with Infobae. Although he will also say yes, he is afraid. For the future, for his children, for his grandchildren.
Is there really anything to fear? The book says no, but… “Neither world wars nor mass exterminations are on the horizon. But, frankly, they also seemed inconceivable in Europe in the 1914s, just as in the belle époque nothing foreshadowed the Great Carnage of 1918-XNUMX.”, writes Ginzberg.
Ginzberg He also says that “the Hitler myth is fuelled by sexual depravity”. There is a case, that of Fritz Haarmann, who lures children, rapes them, bites them, kills them. There is talk of an era of orgies, nudism and frenzy and one culprit is pointed out: the Jew. The Jews would be the depraved ones, just as homosexuals or trans people are accused today. Hitler comes to “put things in order” and return to the old values.
1933 Syndrome He points out that from the very beginning of his government, Hitler was against public administration employees. He shows how, by changing a few words, the arguments are similar. “The Jew is a extranjero, an immigrant. Migrants are criminals. Therefore, Jews are criminals. All Jews are criminals. This syllogism led to extermination. Today, it is enough to replace “Jews” with “illegal migrants,” or simply “migrants,” undesirable by definition. Foreigners hate us. Jews (or Muslims, Mexicans, whoever has it in for us in Europe or the rest of the world) are foreigners. Therefore, they hate us.”.
One of the first measures of the Nazi government was to close the doors to immigrants. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
– How did you start thinking about these analogies, what made it click?
– It was in 2018, when they formed a government between the populists of the Five Star Movement and the nationalists of the Lega. What struck me were the words, the tone, the content on social media. And that reminded me of what had happened in Germany in the 5s.
– What do you mean, specifically?
– For example, what they said about foreigners. Like “let them drown in the sea” and things like that. Or the insults to political rivals.
Did the repudiation of foreigners attract attention? Ginzberg? Certainly, his is not a typical Italian surname. And no, he was not born in Italy. Germany, Austria? No: surprise. Siegmund Ginzberg He came from Türkiye, where he had come into the world in 1948. But, obviously, “Ginzberg” It doesn't sound very Turkish either. I tell you and yes, there is a family story, which has to do with the History of the world:
– My family was from Central Europe, from Romania, and my grandfather was a lawyer there. He still had Turkish citizenship because those lands, at the end of the Danube River, were Turkish in the 16th century. After the First World War he had to emigrate to Constantinople, that is to say to Istanbul, because Jews were prohibited from practising law in the new Romania.
– Sure, it seems that almost all of us are immigrants… You were telling me that you started thinking about this book when you saw how they were treated. And anything else?
– Yes, at that time in Italy, new elections were being called for all the time. And that reminded me that in Germany in the 30s, there were a lot of elections. They voted all the time, very democratically. At one point, nobody had an absolute majority. And they put in Hitler as chancellor, even though he had suffered an electoral defeat. The president was Paul Von Hindenburg, who did not want the chancellorship to be given to Hitler because he understood that his party was not democratic. But they convinced him and formed a coalition with the Nazis, because they were “moderates”, there were right-wing forces even further to the right than them. They said: “we will control Hitler, if we make him chancellor he won't do anything crazy." And they made a big mistake because they only lasted a few months...
– It seems that Hitler and the Nazi discourse have a power that the others do not have.
– It is not just the power of speech: they had a clear idea of having all the power, not sharing it with anyone. A year after taking office, Hitler purged his former main ally, Ernst Röhm, the head of the SA (the first Nazi militarized group). He was killed. Look what happens with Trump: Steve Bannon, who is the ideologue of the extreme right in the United States (it was his idea to “Make America Great Again”) hates Elon Musk, says he is an illegal immigrant from South Africa. Sooner or later, Trump will decide.
“The problem is that democratic parties are not doing the job they should be doing”
– The feeling in history and the question now is whether democracy is not a “dumb” system that provides the tools to build authoritarian regimes.
– The problem is not democracy. The problem is that democratic parties are not doing the job they should be doing because they do not understand that people are fed up with politics as it has been presented to them.
– What are people fed up with when they say they are fed up with politics? Why?
– Because politics does not respond to their needs. Because they do not see a clear perspective of what they are doing, because they fight among themselves. In France, for example, the majority of the electorate did not want to vote for anyone. The situation in Germany was different because they managed to get 83% of voters to go to the polls. Because, as the historian Eric Hobsbawm said, “interesting times” were coming.
– What are the main similarities between 1933 and 2025?
– The similarities are many: Trump He makes immigrants into scapegoats (before it was the Jews), he imagines conspiracies and plots against the United States, things like “Europe mistreats us, destroys our production and trade” (Hitler even accused the Jews, American and British international finance, Bolshevism, of wanting to test Germany and exterminate the German people, Trump (not yet). There was this thing about Germany (now the United States) becoming great again; and so on. Hitler He planned the conquest of I lebensraum (living space) the appropriation of resources, Trump started a trade and tariff war (which is not yet a war, but All wars have started with a trade war and appropriation of resources), the the language aggressive (Hitler (was initially much more cautious). Internally, such a program needs the elimination of all opposition, of all kinds of checks and balances, the absolute concentration of power.
– How would I achieve it?
– Trump He is waging war on his political opponents, especially those who might annoy him in his Republican camp, fighting judges, reshaping the Pentagon, firing independent personnel in the military, in the FBI, in the CIA, in all the key sections of the civil service and in the workplace. He resents the independence of the Federal Reserve, those who suggest that tariffs might not be so convenient for US interests, etc. For example, Chapter 6 of 1933 Syndrome It begins with: “Insults, obscenities, trolls spreading accusations and false news… The first mega revenge of the new government falls on the public administration employees, accompanied by an abstruse nomenclature for those to be eliminated.” In 1933, Hitler proceeded to physically eliminate his allies in the government and his rivals in the Nazi party. I would not be surprised if Trump did the same to those who hold a different opinion among the Republicans and within his inner circle.
– What are the differences between the two eras?
– They are obvious. 2025 is not 1933, the United States is not Nazi Germany, Trump is not Hitler. The main difference may be in the resurgence of politics, the embryonic construction of new coalitions between countries and within each country. Threats are failing… Look at what happened after the elections in Germany, and then in Austria… Europe finally seems to be waking up in some way. Even Sturmer – the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom – and Meloni – the Italian Prime Minister – are embarrassed, they cannot say: “all this does not concern us, we are friends of his. We will have a separate agreement with Trump, he will forgive us…”
– You wrote that the system did not see Hitler coming, that they thought he embodied a certain revolution, a kind of novelty.
– It represented a change.
– Is something like this happening now?
– It happened in the United States: Trump was the change, he was the revolution.
– Is the revolution a man with Trump’s characteristics?
– It is a reactionary revolution. But it was he who said: “I want to change everything.” And they voted for him. Many people voted for him because they believed that he would change everything. They believed that they would end corruption, that he would respond to their needs. And the tragic thing is that Trump got the votes of the young, as happened in Germany. Most of the voters of the far-right AfD (Alternative for Germany) are young. He got the votes of many blacks. He got the votes of many immigrants, of Latino immigrants who were against the newcomers. He got a majority mix. That is why he was elected.
– Why does my neighbor, who is a good person, want to kill immigrants and save dogs? What is going on deep within society? You write that “there must be a strong predisposition, a deep-rooted prejudice, to arouse such broad and enthusiastic support for hatred against those who are different.”
– It turns out that there is a massive amount of misinformation. If people are afraid that Haitian immigrants will eat their dogs and cats, they would rather vote for Trump, who will only throw those immigrants out…
– Do you think they really think that?
– Many of the people who voted for Trump thought that was the reality. It was absolutely fake news. But they believed it.
– That was so obviously false that it might be, rather than a truth in itself, an indication of who the enemy is. To point out an enemy.
– Returning to the analogies, what did Hitler It was precisely pointing out an enemy, which was the Jews… who were immigrants. By the way: the problem with the Jews was a problem with immigration. Many came from the East, they were poor, they were fleeing gangsters. And the enemy, too, were the Social Democrats and all those who made peace at Versailles and “stabbed” Germany. There was this fantasy of stabbing Germany in the back at the end of the First World War. Hitler also pointed against the Weimar constitution, which they said was at the base of corruption, and they called it “the Jewish constitution.” And he was, of course, against the, the left, for him the Bolsheviks, the Jews and international finance were all the same thing. All the enemies of Germany, those who wanted to destroy Germany, exterminate the German race and so on. And people believed him.
– In the book, you highlight the “theatricalization” of Hitler’s appearances, which are analogous to those of today. Like the insults and violent speeches. Goebbels, Hitler’s Minister of Propaganda, spoke of “humanitarian rubbish”, reversing humanist values…
– Well, if the idea is to be stronger than the others… it works.
– But people choose them.
– With Hitler, first, it was because of the media. Later, they believed that Hitler was giving them peace and prosperity. He solved the unemployment problem in a few months, so he delivered some of what he was promising. They did not understand that all this would end in a world war and that Germany would be destroyed in this.
–Have the Internet and all the platforms changed anything now? We make analogies and this is a new element.
– In the 30s, the radio, which was the first thing they had completely in their hands… then the newspapers too. So the Nazis had total control of the media. Now we have much more powerful media than the newspapers. Many people don’t read newspapers anymore. In the United States, with a few exceptions, the newspapers were pro-Democrat. The exception was Jeff Bezos of the Washington Post, who changed at the last minute. All the newspapers denounced Trump’s excesses, but they didn’t have that much of an effect on the vote. Instead, X, the platform that is owned by Elon Musk, had a huge effect that we underestimated.
“The United States wants Europe to no longer exist as a Union”
– Didn’t we see this coming?
– When Musk announced that he would buy Twitter for a huge amount of money, I thought, “the guy is crazy, he is throwing money away on something that is worth who knows what.” Well, he is getting huge returns. Because with that, now, his political possibilities, but above all, economically, are enormous. He is already earning much more than he spent on Twitter.
– Do you think a rational, moderate, neat politician could win today?
– Well, it depends. In the United States, they won’t vote for something like that for a long time, I think, unless something very exceptional happens, like a war. In Europe it is a possibility: after all, they stopped the far right in Germany. Now the democratic parties have to find a common denominator and form a coalition to preserve democracy. It is not a revolutionary task.
– Don’t you think there is a profound change in traditional politics that could lead to real change?
– I don’t see this change on the horizon. At some points in history it may have been possible. Now, frankly, not.
– Are you afraid?
– Yes, of course I am afraid. I am afraid for the future. For example, climate change: all the initiatives against climate change are done to drill the ground. “Drill, baby, drill,” Trump said. Hydrocarbons, oil, fracking. So I don’t see a very good planet for my children and grandchildren. The second thing is war: we don’t see a big war coming. On the contrary, it seems that Trump is trying to stop them. In the Middle East, he wants a total victory for Israel, whatever happens to the Palestinians. And Ukraine: the second word is Ukraine. He could stop Ukraine, but at what price? At the price of dividing Ukraine’s resources between Putin and the United States. Because he only asks one thing from the Ukrainians: give us your mineral resources, or half of your mineral resources. Dividing between two main bullies, two main powers, is also a tradition. Sometimes it worked. It worked for a long time when Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt divided the world.
– Could it be like this today?
– I’m afraid not, because there are other characters in the play. India, China in particular. If they divide the world, they can’t just divide it between the United States and Russia, they have to divide it with China as well. Europe risks being left out of all these agreements and being the main victim of a division of the world between the United States and Russia.
- Why?
– Beyond Zelensky – who was designated as the aggressor instead of Russia – one of the main attacks was on Europe because Trump sent his vice president, JD Vance, to Europe to say: “You are not democratic because you are removing some parties from the government.” For example, the German neo-Nazi party. So, the United States wants to dictate what internal policy Europe has to have. They want Europe to no longer exist as a Union. They want to deal with individual states. The Democrats did not like a united Europe that much either, but at least they were not so openly, blatantly, for the destruction of Europe.
Who is Siegmund Ginzberg?
♦ Italian journalist and writer of Jewish origin, specialized in contemporary history and politics.
♦ Born in Istanbul in 1948 to a Jewish family that moved to Milan in the XNUMXs, his grandparents were subjects of the Ottoman Empire.
♦ He studied philosophy but devoted himself to journalism. He worked for L'Unità, a newspaper for which he was a correspondent for many years in China, India, Japan and the two Koreas, as well as in New York, Washington DC and Paris.
♦ In addition to the collection of articles Sfogliature (2006), he has published the essay Risse da stadio nella Bisanzio di Giustiniano (2008) and the family saga Spie e zie (2015).
Source: INFOBAE
Until a few years ago in Western Europe it was inconceivable that far-right parties could come to power, whereas now it is seen as a normal thing, and the same is happening with other nonsense like hearing what Trump says, but there is still a long way to go before moving on to a situation of extreme continuous violence, not even in the streets by organised extremist groups. You never know what the majority of society will think, but at least I still laugh out loud when I see politicians doing the Nazi salute, as happened a few days ago with Steve Bannon, Trump's former advisor, because of the embarrassing situation or because of how psychopathic they must be and yet they have voted for them. In any case, you never know with these people. Every day that passes there are more people who have social networks as their main source of information, partly because of the disenchantment with traditional media, and because of the closeness of the many chosen among ordinary people to give news day after day and sometimes live, although mediocrity, fake news, political bias or populism also abound, perhaps also because of the comments they receive or coercion from interested or organized followers, or above all there are many economic interests that are not usually taken into account, while the most famous live off publicity and their opinions are due to what the majority of society thinks, the most extremist take advantage of the opposite, to try to give the note of color without economic pressure.