Interview conducted by David A. Rosenthal on September 5 with the Ukrainian Ambassador to Israel
David A. Rosenthal: Could you explain the current situation of the war between Russia and Ukraine and how the international community can help the Ukrainian people and government?
Honorable Ambassador Yevgen Korniychuk: The war has been going on for more than two and a half years, during which there has been no perceptible change in the attitude of the Russian invaders. They continue to try to conquer as much territory as possible in Ukraine, pursuing two different objectives. The initial goal was to conquer kyiv and effect a change in the country's direction. It should be noted that at the beginning of the conflict, some international observers believed that Ukraine would be unable to withstand the onslaught for more than two weeks.
Some commentators have postulated that the conflict could persist for several months. It should be noted that our unit has been stationed on the same front line for approximately two and a half years. The second objective was to displace as many civilians as possible from the country. This objective was achieved by regular bombardment of urban areas and the use of an assortment of missiles, including ballistic and other Russian-made weapons, as well as Iranian drones and North Korean missiles. Iran is reported to be supplying new rockets to Russian forces, which could be used to attack civilian infrastructure. However, the resistance of the Ukrainian people is such that they will not admit defeat. It is regrettable that the number of refugees has been considerable.
Those who have emigrated to Europe. The figures in question vary considerably depending on the source consulted. Some have suggested that the figure is 5 million. An alternative hypothesis suggests a figure of up to 6,5 million. A certain number of people have returned to Ukraine, despite having resided abroad for varying periods of time, including a year or more. In addition, a considerable number of internally displaced persons have moved from conflict-affected regions in the east and south to regions in the west and north. As already noted, the city of Lviv has experienced a significant increase in population, with the number of residents almost doubling since the start of the conflict. This is attributed to the influx of businesses from eastern Ukraine, particularly from Kharkiv. The population of the Kharkiv area, originally from Donbas and Kherson, has moved to Lviv and western Ukraine.
Speaking of these incidents, it is regrettable to note that citizens were subjected to nine hours of sirens in kyiv last night. As a result of these circumstances, my daughter has experienced considerable difficulties in waking up and attending school after such a hectic night. It is therefore imperative that measures be taken to neutralize the missiles and drones, with particular attention being paid to Iranian-made drones. Russia now manufactures drones of a similar design to those produced by Iran, but using the same technology. Despite their efforts, the attackers did not achieve their goal of bombing kyiv. However, the components of the drones and missiles that did manage to penetrate the airspace had a tangible impact on residential areas, with debris falling from the sky. It is not yet clear whether there were any casualties as a result of this incident. At this time, the relevant information is not available, but it is clear that last night was a disaster for Zaporizhzhia and Poltava, where a rocket was fired at a civilian high school, where its students were studying. Poltava is closer to the east, so it is closer to the war.
In conclusion, it can be stated that 54 people lost their lives in Poltava at that time. It is therefore very regrettable that more than 200 people were injured. It is curious to note that Ukraine is currently in a good situation amidst the ongoing conflict, in stark contrast to the prevailing sentiment that participating in a war is inherently detrimental to one's well-being. It is of utmost importance that we either participate in combat in a manner that is both effective and ethical, or that we abstain from participating in it altogether. It is clear that we have no alternative but to proceed as we have done. This is an existential conflict, comparable to the situation facing Israel. The situation can be summed up as a choice between two opposing forces. We are therefore forced to consider the option of surrendering and pursuing a peaceful existence, given the looming threat of violence and forced relocation posed by the Russians. An example of this is the Soviet invasion of eastern Poland and the subsequent annexation of these territories, which became part of the Soviet Union in 1939. The result was the occupation of eight Oblast or regions of Western Ukraine.
Consequently, most of the civilian population opposed to the Soviet regime was quickly deported to Siberia or other rural regions located in the east of the USSR. This is illustrative of the way Russia has treated the inhabitants of the occupied territories. Those who survive the filtration camps are sent to the Russian army to fight against the Ukrainians. One could be forgiven for asking: Most of these people are likely to reject this option and thus face deportation or imprisonment. We are therefore left with no alternative but to stand firm and defend our country. Significant advances have been made in anti-missile defence, particularly in anti-drone technology. These advances have surpassed the capabilities available at the start of the conflict, allowing the neutralisation of intelligence and combat drones, including the Iranian-produced Shahed.
Although this drone is relatively inexpensive, it is capable of performing a wide variety of tasks. It is capable of inflicting considerable damage. For this reason, the drone has been detected at a considerable distance and subsequently disabled. According to the data I have reviewed this morning, the result reached 100% last night. This figure represents a significant increase from previous levels. Twenty drones belonging to the Islamic State were allied by the Israeli army, which had previously been attacked by Hezbollah and pro-Iranian forces in Iraq. One of these drones hit a building above Tel Aviv, near the US embassy, just over a month ago.
One individual was killed and another wounded. It is safe to say that the weapons are the same. For this reason, I continually reiterate to our Israeli colleagues that we are in combat with the same adversary. Iran can therefore be considered a common enemy. Iran represents a common enemy. It seems reasonable to conclude that Russia is a common enemy, given the evidence that they have been working closely together.
It seems reasonable to posit that this is a transfer of technology, particularly of the one that has the greatest consequences for them, namely nuclear technology. This seems to make Iran a more significant threat in terms of the likelihood of it acquiring nuclear weapons in the near future. It is clear that Moscow is issuing invitations to all Iranian proxies, who have significant interactions with Iran itself. Subsequently, ministerial-level exchanges and visits by the heads of the National Security Council have taken place. In addition, representatives of Hezbollah and Hamas have also visited Iran. Moreover, the head of the Palestinian state recently made an official visit, which, in our view, represented a significant development. The day before, Mahmoud Abbas, leader of the Palestinian autonomy, had arrived in Moscow. Simultaneously, the United Nations had delivered grain from Ukraine to Ramallah, thus helping Palestinians facing economic problems. Ukraine’s help was “duly acknowledged.” Abbas subsequently arrived in Moscow the next day.
It is clear that the current situation can be defined as a state of conflict. It is crucial to recognize that the underlying cause of this conflict is the same, regardless of whether it manifests itself in Israel or Ukraine. Consequently, it is imperative to recognize the interrelated nature of these two conflicts. I am curious to know your opinion on this matter.
DAR: Do you think Russia has hostile intentions towards Israel?
HEYK: Russia has made its intentions towards Israel clear. Russia has demonstrably supported Hezbollah, which has helped the warring parties. What other steps could be taken? Should they deploy military forces? Indeed, it was this article that led to the opening of the military checkpoint located just across the Golan Heights, about two kilometers from the current border line. The question then is: what other resource do they have at their disposal? One might ask whether it would be optimal for them to initiate direct attacks from military bases. They are clearly complicit. Furthermore, an analysis of the propaganda used by Hamas in the United States and Europe reveals the use of techniques similar to those used by Russia in disseminating information about the actions of the Israeli army in the Gaza Strip. These techniques aim to present the Israeli army as particularly brutal in its treatment of Palestinian civilians. It is clear that the Palestinian issue has gained great traction in academic institutions in the United States and Europe, as demonstrated by the proliferation of pro-Palestinian speeches and demonstrations. By contrast, Ukraine stands out as a notable exception in Europe, with a notable absence of such demonstrations. This is despite the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas, which has increased the visibility of the Palestinian narrative.
DAR: What is the current state of relations between Ukraine and Israel? It is important to consider the nature of the alliance between these two countries and the implications that this has for both.
HEYK: It would be beneficial to provide more assistance, given that Israel is not a member of NATO and is reluctant to provide direct military aid to Ukraine, which would be invaluable. However, with the ongoing challenges in Gaza and along the Lebanese border, it is understandable that Israel is prioritizing the security of its population over providing necessary resources to Ukraine. Consequently, Israel, a relatively small state with a surface area comparable to that of one of our regions, represents only one region out of our 26. It can be reasonably assumed that even if Israel were to provide Ukraine with all the weapons it needs, this would not alter the situation on the ground. It is of the utmost importance that we engage in technology sharing.
For example, we could share and exchange knowledge with the Israeli side on how to prevent or neutralize missile attacks or disable missiles and drones. This is of utmost importance to us, given that Russia will try to disrupt our energy system before the arrival of winter. Therefore, it is of utmost importance for us to obtain as many technologies as possible in order to successfully overcome this problem and ensure the continued warmth of our people during the winter months. It is also worth considering whether Russia might try to invade other NATO member states, such as Poland, the Baltics or Finland. It is important to remember that Ukraine was also a potential target in the early 1990s, when it could have joined NATO and the EU relatively quickly, as could the Baltic countries. However, at that time, the Ukrainian people were reluctant to do so, largely due to their dependence on cheap Russian gas and the influence of Russian propaganda.
In the 1990s, a minority of Ukrainians expressed a desire to join the European Union (EU) and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). As a result, Ukraine has already received an invitation to join the EU, and the process of negotiating its accession to NATO has begun. Progress has been somewhat slower than expected. This is clearly not the result of any action on our part. It is due to NATO's reluctance to admit a new member that is engaged in an armed conflict with a foreign nuclear superpower, namely Russia. However, we are striving to become a member of NATO as soon as possible. It is not clear whether the entire Ukrainian territory will be liberated in the immediate future or whether current NATO membership will be limited to territories under the control of the Ukrainian government. The proportion of territory currently under Russian control is estimated to be approximately 27%, with the remainder under Ukrainian administration. This could be a potential avenue for Ukraine's accession to the Alliance, subject to the willingness of the member states to accept Ukraine's inclusion of territories under temporary Russian occupation. It is important to note that there is no Russian jurisdiction within Ukrainian territory.
DAR: How do you assess the likelihood of Ukraine achieving victory in the current conflict with Russia?
HEYK: Again, the outcome depends on the objective. What is it that is intended to be achieved? In this context, the term “win” is used in the sense of achieving a military victory. The objective is to achieve a military victory. It would be prudent for Ukraine to request the full range of weapons from the United States and its NATO allies. It seems likely that victory has already been achieved, especially given the significant territories liberated in Kharkiv, as well as Kherson.
However, there has been a persistent shortage of long-range precision munitions and missiles, as well as other resources essential for advanced and offensive operations. Despite recent improvements, these shortages persist. In light of all the above, it is worth concluding the following: It is therefore necessary for our Western partners and ourselves to recognize that we are not facing a single enemy. Moreover, we have the same partners in the United States and the European Union.
Therefore, if their perception changes to one of allowing Ukraine to prevail but ensuring the provision of all necessary resources to achieve victory over Russia, this would be a cause for concern because of the perceived threat posed by Russian nuclear capabilities. However, this dynamic may change in the future. However, I believe that our greatest asset is people, not land. We must consider a range of options, including military action, while pursuing diplomatic and political negotiations at the local level. Our goal must be to save as many lives as possible.
DAR: Regarding the involvement of mercenaries, it is pertinent to ask whether the deployment of mercenaries is a valuable contribution to the conflict in Ukraine. For example, the involvement of mercenaries from Colombia in the conflict has been observed.
HEYK: There are a number of individuals from other countries who are serving as volunteers in Ukraine. However, this is part of a bigger picture. This is an unprecedented situation, as the opportunity to defend itself has already passed. Therefore, it is imperative that more proactive measures are taken, as Ukraine has been defending itself in vain, while Russia continues its assault. It is crucial to immediately attack the Russian bases from which our country is being attacked. This is a vital step, as mere defense against Russian bombardment is insufficient.
Therefore, it is necessary to neutralize this threat on the ground. Essentially, the Russian people must experience the war on their own territory, as it would be unfair to limit the conflict to Ukraine alone. This is especially important for the Russian people, who see it as a limited military operation based outside Russia. The advance of Ukrainian forces into Russian territory in Kursk, for example, caused a significant change in the strategic picture. We now control more than 1.000 square kilometers of Russian territory in the Kursk region, located in northern Ukraine and adjacent to the Sumy and Kharkiv regions. This allows Ukrainian forces to engage in direct fire with regular ammunition and artillery, at the very least. Therefore, it is important to demonstrate that the conflict could develop on Russian territory. I am skeptical about the credibility of its leaders.
DAR: What has happened within the Ukrainian government, which has undergone a significant transformation?
HEYK: For example, some people were transferred from the government to the President's Office. It is important to remember that the political party led by Zelensky has a supermajority in Parliament. That is why they are not worried about it. In essence, it has no active opposition, especially in times of war. Consequently, a feeling of opposition to the proposed election prevails at present, given the ongoing state of conflict.
Accordingly, he is free to change the government as often as he deems necessary. It should also be noted that the incumbent President changed the Chief of Staff a few months ago. Accordingly, the previous Chief of Staff, Mr. Zaluzhnyi, has become my colleague. He is currently serving as ambassador in London, and I had the honour of engaging in dialogue with him two weeks ago at the ambassadors' conference in Ukraine.
It can therefore be concluded that this is not a particularly anomalous event. Although the government has undergone frequent changes, it is notable that the mandate of the ministers who have remained in office has exceeded four or five years, which is a relatively long period. Moreover, it is important to note that the next elections, both for parliament and for the president, will only be possible after the end of the war.
DAR: What is the central message you wish to convey to the Israeli people and the international community?
HEYK: It is crucial to recognize the interconnectedness of the two wars in Israel and Ukraine, characterized by shared adversaries and allies. This underscores the need for continued collaboration to achieve victory and safeguard our democracies as well as the lives of our citizens.